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Below, are are few of the emails we
received regarding my rant:
Chucks rant is so
honest & blunt most will never accept it. The petty comments made by
people on the forum showed that if it is not done how a few think it
should be or act in a manner they think is correct it is not accepted.
Oh yes & what he said is why skiers & judges leave the sport & it is so
hard to grow it. Even sponsors are not impressed but watch this year how
difficult events will be with tight money. We need new ideas from all
with change to all work much better together to help grow the sport.
Just a old passionet skier who cares. Watch Chuck catch hell for this
one from the jealous few!!!
Don Simon
Tennessee
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Chuck,
I just read your rant on judging. UMBWSA did the first on-shore video in
1995. Here it is 14 years later and judging still isn't done on shore
for World tournaments. Equipment is even better today. The camera in the
boat needs to be recording just in case there is a failure to the shore
system, but that shouldn't create a re-ride (skiers always have and
always will lobby for re-rides). We had on-shore video for entertainment
purposes at the 1996 Worlds here in Fergus Falls and even that was
somewhat controversial at the time as no one wanted the judges second
guessed. The change to video jump measurement created some controversy
as everyone was sure the Johnson visual system was correct (6 sets of
eyes must be better than one camera).
Just don't let anyone eliminate judging from the boat altogether at
tournaments as that was half the fun of a tournament.
Its been a long time since I judged a very young Keith in a tournament
and almost as long since I judged a Open Division skier so I won't give
any opinion on whether he should be scored higher or lower. Plus I'm an
old hacker at best with my barefooting skills so I can't say what it
takes from the skiers perspective to achieve what Keith has.
Barefooting is such a small sport competitively that it needs to do what
it can to draw attention to itself. Keep stoking the fires.
Pete Beithon
Fergus Falls, MN
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Chuck
I can't bitch
about your ranting on your own web site but at least try to get SOME of
the facts straight..
To my knowledge there was only ONE protest filed during the entire
tournament.. Upon review of the facts it was found that the judges did
not observe the rules regarding ONE trick, they made a human mistake,
and the protest was upheld... It corrected a mistake by teh judges so
the right skier won..
I think we agree that the skier who does the best according to the rules
should win and we all should be doing everything possible to ensure that
outcome... So at the end of the tournament there was only ONE trick that
was protested by any team official.. Hardly sounds like the same
tournament you describe..
That mistake advantaged an American skier.. The American Coach was part
of the protest... He witnessed an Australian skier being robbed and he
did the right thing and asked the CJ that the run be reviewed.. There
was NOTHING but GOOD sportsmanship displayed by all of the team
officials as far as I saw...
Just for the record, Cameron Smith was originally going to the second
round of jump with a jump that he did not ski away from.. It was Team
Australia that pointed this out to the CJ and got the right skiers into
the second round... NOBODY was trying to find every flaw to advance
themselves as you advocate.. YES... We were all looking for every
flaw...But only to make sure the right skiers went forward and got paid
what they were supposed to get paid NO MATTER HOW OR WHAT TEAM WAS
AFFECTED...
The slalom event that was rerun was handled 100% by the event judges..
THE EVENT JUDGES decided amongst themselves that the event should be
rerun.. There was NO PROTEST by any team.. The judges and the driver all
agreed that the conditions went from good to OK to un-skiable and the
last 2 skiers did not have any chance to ski well in that water... So it
was re-run so everyone had the same crappy water... I will say this very
clearly for you...NO PROTEST WAS EVER FILED AND NONE WAS EVER THREATENED
on this event....
There is a lot of other stuff I cant agree with... like the WBC being
responsible to announce that KSOs tricks were not a record.. I think if
you do your homework you will find the WBC NEVER looked at the tape..
Once again it was the event judges who, after doing their on site
review, decided not to put it forward as a record... Hard to figure how
any score that is not put forward to the WBC for consideration somehow
becomes the responsibility of the WBC.. I agree that maybe somebody from
the tournament should have acknowledged that the score was not being
submitted as a record but I also understand if they were too busy...
If you want to print facts why not put in there that the ABC, "the
largest and most influential" federation on the planet only sent one
boat judge and the single ABC boat driver (Dan Cummings) put the boat on
shore SEVEN TIMES and cut 2 ropes... He put the boat on shore 4 times in
a 9 skier division.. Why not tell the ABC their representation and
assistance to the World Championships was dismal at best.. NO other
driver put the boat on shore even once..
Please correct these errors this on your web site if you want to be
accurate..
Thanks
Oscar Foot
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Chuck:
Regarding the
Rant. I wish to clarify one issue which has been misrepresented. It has
to do with the Women's slalom final. It has been stated that the event
judges made the decision for the event to be run again. I paste an
answer from Foot: The slalom event
that was rerun was handled 100% by the event judges.. THE EVENT JUDGES
decided amongst themselves that the event should be rerun.. There was NO
PROTEST by any team.. The judges and the driver all agreed that the
conditions went from good to OK to un-skiable and the last 2 skiers did
not have any chance to ski well in that water... So it was re-run so
everyone had the same crappy water... I will say this very clearly for
you...NO PROTEST WAS EVER FILED AND NONE WAS EVER THREATENED on this
event....Foot
This is incorrect. The following occurred. After the 3rd skier's 1st
pass, conditions worsened in regards to what the skiers before had to
ski in. This was noted on the judges sheets by at least myself and at
least 1 other judge. The Chief Judge then spoke with us and we explained
our notations. The WBC was then convened at it was the WBC who directed
that the event was to be re run, not the judges in the boat as it has
been indicated. I will also point out that as I am on the WBC, I advised
the WBC Chairman that it would be a conflict of interest for me to be at
the meeting during which this decision was made, due to my being one of
the judges in the boat. That is the facts surrounding this issue.
Whether you wish to publish this is your decision.
Geoff Davis
Boat Judge 2009 Worlds.
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Hi Chuck
I read your "rant" on the 09 worlds with
much interest and agree with much that you had to say.
World champs are a challenging event for everyone - skiers & officials.
A skier has put in many years & hours training, not to mention $$$$ to
get there. Invariably, there are those that leave utterly deflated as
results did not meet expectations, & those delighted by their personal
performances.
I have to agree with you re team managers. I have been to a few worlds
now in different roles - judge, scorer & team manager. I believe some
team managers are having way to much to say & are dictating to the
officials how the event will be run. A few strong personalities in this
role quite frankly become a pain for the officials & the LOC, as
happened here in 2009. They were so pedantic & were making ridiculous
demands on the officials. Finally Andy Harris blew his whistle - told CJ
& ACJ to get the message to them to pull their horns in, or complete the
event without appointed officials! I think the role & say that the team
managers have needs to be addressed. The managers meetings on site are
lengthy, and usually negative. Maybe this role needs defining &
addressing, so that some managers are not able to dictate or influence
the tournament so much. Fortunately there are team managers who raise
issues if needed, but otherwise remain quiet – it is difficult to name
the team managers of some countries as they went about their roles
quietly & efficiently without fuss.
As a judge at these worlds I was very interested in your comments -
there are some points of which I couldn't agree more but others to
defend!
Firstly re judges conferring in the boat - I can say that at these
worlds & others, I haven't witnessed any judges altering their sheets &
judging as a result of this. In 1 crew I was in 1 judge clearly had a
different view of the wake than the other 2. This became obvious as we
conferred for provisional scores very early on. No alterations were
made, that judge continued that event as they started, thus was
consistent for the entire event, therefore no skier should have been
advantaged or disadvantaged. However, at lower levels of judging, I have
seen this happen & have witnessed judges changing sheets when 1 person
has strongly voiced their views on a skiers performance. So yes - under
the rules we do confer - there are things we need to discuss out there,
but I am confident that at a world champs score sheets are not being
altered.
Secondly our score sheets are very public. It is very transparent from
the sheet what the judge marked in the boat & what alterations were made
with reference to video review. Our sheets are scrutinized to the nth
degree by firstly team managers then skiers & every error will be noted
by them!!
From a judges perspective, I couldn't agree more the need to be able to
utilize the video as a tool to ensure that we are getting it right for
skiers. Not only getting it right for skiers, but for ourselves. We must
operate under the rules of the WBC, & these rules are preventing us from
utilizing these tools. These rules were probably quite appropriate when
technology wasn't the quality it is today, & skiers weren't scoring
10,000+ trick runs, or 20 in slalom. The demands are now far greater as
the sport has moved on, which has made the job as a judge far more
challenging - with nothing being offered to ease that. Hence the
challenge we have of so few people wanting to become a judge. Few people
want to judge elite skiers - the thought have having to get a 10000+ run
down in 30 seconds with no assistance doesn't appeal. Would this change
if they knew they were able to use the video as a tool to assist them? I
think the WBC need to be realistic in what they are expecting judges to
do, & begin looking to alter the rules to allow this to happen.
I had the privilege?? / stress of judging the men’s open A grade at
these world's (& also back in Mulwala). I certainly don't claim to be
good enough to get it right. In fact I haven't seen any judge since
scores got over 10000 who hasn't needed to go to video for these skiers.
I only get to see this level of skiing at worlds, so to prepare must
spend time in front of videos. I readily admit the need to use video. I
have developed a technique that I use in the boat, that I feel allows me
to utilize the rules re video review as they are at present, while still
being fair & consistent in the boat for all the skiers. When reviewing
video, there are times I see I have made a mistake. Sometimes I see I
was too harsh (earning my “Slash Sister” title!) and other times it goes
in the skiers favour as I was too kind. However, as I had not requested
video for that trick, reason, I am not allowed to change it. If I did,
those "lovely" team managers would be sure to pick this up when they
scrutinized the sheets & take it to the CJ to be altered. The mistakes
that you see in this time can equally benefit or disadvantage the skier.
There is nothing I would like more than to be able to use the video to
ensure that I had it right for every skier.
The other issue we have with our present system is that 2 / 3 in
agreement is the deciding factor for scoring. However, this does not
necessarily mean that we are getting it right for the skier. As often
can be the case, the over ruled judge was in fact the correct judge. I’m
sure any CJ who has reviewed score sheets against video will agree that
in many cases, the over ruled judge did in fact have the correct
decision. This of course raises another issue again! We believe the 2 /
3 is fair, but this can be giving the skier an advantage or
disadvantage. If we were able to review video with a wider reference
than we have at present, this could be avoided. This shows up clearly
when reviewing for records. When looking at the tricks / crosses the
review panel disallows against the judges sheets, quite often 1 judge
had not credited the same trick/ crossing, but the other 2 had, so the
skier got the benefit. Hence the difference we have between the boat
score & the “reviewed” score.
So where to from here? I guess to see the changes that you have raised,
& many of us in the sport agree with, means challenging the WBC's rules
on video review for judging purposes. I believe it will be a long time
happening, as there will be resistance - both from skiers & those who
hold the present system near & dear to their hearts! Yes, I do think
some skiers would challenge such a change. I was "challenged" by some
skiers at these worlds, that any judge who needed to refer to video is
not in fact a Level 1 judge & shouldn't be in the boat. They believe
that video review is negative for skiers as the most likely result is
their score going down - not something they want to see happening. Maybe
these skiers all need to spend some time in the boat to see if they can
get a 10000+ trick down perfectly themselves! Myself. I would love to
have the opportunity to review video openly for judging so that the
results that come out for each skier are the correct ones & to know that
I have got it right myself!
Just my thoughts -
Thanks for giving us a platform to voice them.
Kathy O'Donnell
LOC Worlds 09
Judge Worlds 09
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